The Classic Question: What is the role of an HO?

[vengeance]

kestrel83 said:

Hey guys, anyone know wat happened to the selection for NDP contingent commanders? I msged the guy (H/INSP Simon) but he never reply. Have they found a contingent commander already?

Not very happy about wat he said also. "If u were an ex-CI, u would have a better chance". Then ex-CLT how?? Dun care about them izzit? As far as i know, the NDP must follow SAFPU GOH timing, which is based on ARMY drills.

Isn't it better to have someone who knows both NPCC and army drills, so can point out to contingent members the differences?

What an unfair world...

I believe the choosing of commander should not only base on experience.

The attitude and the behaviour should be factored in of course. We wouldn't want officers to wear uniform and walks around smoking cigarettes in front of the cadets. worst still, in public.

Sadly, i have to comment i am utterly disgusted by u for the many disgusting comment you have posted.

[fierce]

It's always easy to criticise without knowing the full picture or a fuller picture.. granted that it's very hard to have the full picture.

Do make an effort to find out more and after that... many of us will begin to eat our words.

Mark my words

[kestrel83]

I believe the choosing of commander should not only base on experience.

The attitude and the behaviour should be factored in of course. We wouldn't want officers to wear uniform and walks around smoking cigarettes in front of the cadets. worst still, in public.

I see.... so it seems that the private life of an officer is exposed due to his official duties. I'm sure the officer in question does not smoke IN UNIFORM. And with cadets around, I'm sure he has the presence of mind to either refrain, or if he knows them well, to inform them of the dangers of smoking.

Better still, he probably uses himself as an example. For instance, if a cadet sees him smoke, he will reply by saying:

"This is wat happens if u start. U start coughing, u get sick easily, and u can't live without it. I thought it was cool when I was young, but I regretted that decision. Now, I'm trying to wean myself off, and its a hard and painful process. NEVER FOLLOW MY EXAMPLE IN THIS..."

Seeing how much torture his officer is going thru, WITH THE CADETS OWN EYES, that cadet will never pick up a cigarette again. It all depends on how sincere that officer is.

Pity that some ppl see only flaws in a person's character, instead of viewing both sides of the coin and try to find the good in him.

If ppl wanna judge another person, then that's fine. Ultimately, the person who judges will have his flaws judged by others as well. And the tables might just turn...

Let the man who believes himself free of sin cast the first stone...

[Xalth]

isaura said:

kestrel83 said:

Even if they were not disciplined like in CIBTC, I feel that as teachers (and therefore, older and more mature), they should have some form of discipline.

Hard skills can be taught. Soft skills too. But discipline can't really be drilled into someone who is 25+ years old right?

Besides, the tone for the past OBTCs was relaxed. Its a give-and-take situation. If the course was too tough or rigid in discipline, then its feared that not many teachers would be willing to go thru the course.

But the NCC Officers course is tough, and most of the teachers (mostly guys) are v 'on' about it...

Sorry, this is a lag response to what were discussed here much earlier.

I feel we should not and we cannot use NCC examples to explain NPCC phenomena. These are two different organisations.

When I was a CI, I used to have the opinion that most Teacher Officers have no discipline/cannot make it/are worse than cadets. However, having gone through OBTC myself and experienced almost 2 years of NPCC life as a HO, I must say that there is much more to being an Officer.

To a certain extent, a Teacher Officer's job pertains to carrying out major decision-making and adminstrative matters in the Unit. His job is to ensure that the Unit and its structure runs smoothly, and that his decisions are for the best well-being of the Unit.

We must understand that many TOs did not have prior uniform-group experience, especially female TOs. Hence, to judge their performance in drill/campcraft etc. using benchmarks that apply better only to cadets and CIs (for that matter) is being unfair to this group of people. Hence Xalth, I think it is never an issue whether TOs can perform excellent footdrill or not. As long as he conducts himself properly in his uniform, it's good enough. Excellent drill or campcraft is not necessary since a teacher-officer's role in NPCC is NOT to train cadets. That is not his job. I mean, if it is necessary for TOs to be masters of drill/campcraft etc., why do we even have CIs and instructors?

I have seen for myself TOs who were very enthusiastic and 'on' during OBTC, TOs who behave with grace and discipline, sometimes even more so than people who have years of experience in NPCC..

However, kestrel83, it will not be a good idea for OBTC to become something like CIBTC, for reasons that I mentioned above. OBTC trains people to lead the Unit, it does not train people to become instructors. That is CIBTC's objective. Hence, OBTC and CIBTC should never become the same thing.

I feel that before we actually bash TOs for being 'ill-disciplined' or 'cannot-make-it', we have to understand them better in the first place.

So sorry for the late reply. Did not notice this msg which was "arrowed" to me.. haha!!

I was fumed coz of wat i saw back in my unit when i was a cdt.. & even when i was an nco. No doubt there r more things officers need to do & more stress they hav.. but i juz cannot imagine having officers under the shade giving instructions to contingents on the parade sq.. ask them stand there stand here, move here move there.. won't it b better to direct them more specifically than... well, i had cdts who fainted during training, got their chin stitched etc.. wat comments they get? unless? soft? omg!

k, i tink i'd better stopped here..

[kestrel83]

I guess coolbreeze is right, coz the objectives of OBTC is clear in that it is to train officers to lead the unit. Perfect hard skills is preferable, but not absolutely necessary.

However, there is another case which I know of. This particular TO knows nuts about how to run a unit, yet decides to have a hand in training. Problem is, he teaches cadets the wrong thing. To make matters worse, this particular (God-forsaken) unit has no CIs to help them.

Now, I really wonder how come HQ did not assign CIs to this particular school. I am familiar with their situation to know enough about this unit, and its really quite sad. Their only CI is a 21 year old W/CI who is now going for HO course this December. The TOs do not know how to run the unit, or at least, they dunno what is going on in the unit.

Neither does the OC, who is the one responsible for teaching the cadets rubbish. If any CIs (esp in the West) are free during this holidays, pls email me if ur willing to help this unit. For those who know which unit this is (like Chris86), pls dun reveal which unit it is. I think they have suffered enuf embarrasment already...

[xXx]

Hmm...I think the unit does need help?

Is it a new unit? How come no CIs?

But it is good news that a ex-CI is now going to be back there...

[kestrel83]

Its not a new unit... the school has been around for 5 years already. The ex-CI was not a former alumnus of that school. She was just posted there by HQ.

Update: 23rd November - The OC Unit asked me to get a few CIs to help out in teaching the cadets pioneering so that they can display some projects for their recruitment next year. Interested parties, pls email me.

[xXx]

5 years is quite new...but sad that no one 'solid' enough to build the foundation.

Ooh...pioneering project...sounds cool. I wonder which unit that is.

Hopefully when the ex-CI return there after HO course, and with the D05 graduating, hopefully the unit will rise.

Kinda sad to see any NPCC unit being 'abandoned'...

[kestrel83]

Thats why... I just hope their fortunes will improve soon... they are getting a new principal, and he is from a good school.

Maybe he will do something to improve the unit...

[kestrel83]

Dig dig dig... seems I was quite a firebrand in the old days...

[Bas]

haha, the thing is

i just found this thread!

[=(ChAin HaNG LoW)=]

ha ha .. where is it ?

[kestrel83]

Hehe... still remember the days when i was buay song with those hq cronies... still buay song la... but now not so hot-headed anymore... after 4 years, HQ has lost much of its lustre and credibility. The good staff officers have all left. Now, even P/INSP can become Head of something... last time all Heads were DSP... of coz they can always instant promote a P/INSP to DSP but I feel such thing is very hollow but since MOE CCAB is a Govt organisation, I guess they would (like any civil servant) take the path of least resistance.

For wateva rank a new officer puts on straight after OBTC, they are still P/INSP to me... rank means nothing if you do not win the respect of ur subordinates.

To use an example, I still remember my HOBTC (during those days when we were mashed together with OBTC). DSP(NPCC) John Lee (for those who know him) was in the same course. Instant promotion to DSP, BUT he commanded the respect that came along with DSP rank. That kind of instant promotion really nobody will mind. He was firm but fair, and one of the staff officers I still respect although I dunno if he still in NPCC or not. Last I heard he with ACS(I).